Why This Product Manager Embraced Failure to Pivot and Deliver a Winning Guest Experience
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INTERVIEWER
Um, in our line of business project matters. Uh, I think it's fair to say there's a lot of restarts and pivots from time to time. Uh, and so I'd like to talk about Project, product, or even just, you know, low level feature work, whatever, just pick whatever comes to mind. But, um, where you were more than halfway there in terms of completion of of what it was you were trying to deliver and realized you were on the wrong path. Um, whether that was because it was clear that you were on the wrong path because you just kind of made bad decisions or because there were some new unintended consequences that that hadn't been thought through or that were surfacing that were potentially knowable, but largely unknowable. Um. Pick one and let's just talk about what was the situation, what did you do? But, but again, the focus is on something where you, you know, halfway as a general guidepost, but you're more than halfway there and then had to make a decision to stop and do something else.
CANDIDATE
OK, um, I mean, I have a scenario that I'm thinking of that we were on the wrong path, um, and realized that halfway through and I, I continued. Um,
INTERVIEWER
let's let's have that conversation. That'll be interesting.
CANDIDATE
Sure, um, so we were, um, So similar business, uh, you know, working a pillow, leading the product team, um. Uh, There was a, so we had an application for our vendors, our independent contractors in the market, and then we had a web app for our owners. And we didn't have any technology for um the The guests, right? They had uh a website where they could access um some information about their vacation rental, um, but no app. Um, and the information on the web app was sort of incomplete and it wasn't a great experience. And so we revamped the um, The web app to improve the experience. Uh, one of the major things we're focused on is, um, reducing the number of reservations that experienced a lockout where they weren't able to get into the um The, the, the vacation rental, and so that was the the primary focus of our um of our redesign of the guest interface, um, as part of that, we also wanted to release a mobile app, um, in part because, um, You know, our guests were on the go, right? So they were checking into a vacation rental on vacation, um, and we wanted to ensure that they had, um, an experience that would make it easy for them to access their vacation rental, and then we also had um mechanisms for supporting them throughout the reservation, um, that we thought would be a better experience to, to navigate in in an app itself. um, so. Uh, and, and we had also committed to investors, um, and our board that we were gonna release an app in, I think it was like, you know, the early in Q1 of that year, um, so, uh. Halfway through the project, basically I um You know, thinking through the user experience, I did, I did think it was important for them to um Be able to access this information on the go, um. But It didn't necessarily need to occur in a uh native application. Um, there was some wins there that were, um, important, like, you know, being able to store the data, uh, locally on the phone, so that if they didn't have access to Wi Fi, then they would still be able to access it, um. But it became clear that um that those were cases for the customer and um that the whole like building it as an application in and of itself was um not an efficient use of engineering resources. Um, so what we should have done is uh release with um only the web app and then determine if our growth in reservations um resulted in It being necessary to to launch the mobile app, um, but what we did is instead is like the launch the mobile app as a fast follow, um, so. You know, I'm sorry,
INTERVIEWER
you're saying that the decision point was whether or not to release the mobile app? With data versus just a fast follow. Right. OK.
CANDIDATE
Yeah, so we were more than halfway into developing the mobile app, like we're more than halfway done, um. And Uh, Yeah, it, it was like we just completed it and got it into the app store. It was approved very quickly, um, and we had a mobile app, but, uh, it turns out that during that time of development we realized that the web app was more than sufficient for guests to be using and um they weren't getting a huge amount of additional value from the the web app or the mobile app because the web app was solving like 98% of their problems.
INTERVIEWER
OK, so in that fast follow model though, you know, in that window, or I guess even not, right, you kind of do your, do your release. How are you, how are you guys defining success or failure of the project?
CANDIDATE
Uh, we are defining success of the revisions to the interface of reducing customer support requests and reducing the occurrence of this particular incident of lockout, um, but we had achieved that with the web app and so there weren't, um, there weren't specific metrics associated to the, the mobile app other than sort of general engagement and then the ability to initiate, uh, like additional um. Kind of add-ons to the reservation that made the the um the company, you know, incremental revenue, um. But uh, You know, those were also supported in the web app, so it wasn't necessary to do it in a native application.
INTERVIEWER
So I guess this would be, I guess a two-part question. So, um, you do the fast follow, you release the mobile app, but you didn't have clear objective metrics as to success or failure of that specific SKU versus the, the mobile web app SKU, right? So I guess the first, well, this is our first question, what did you then decide to do about the mobile app and over what time period? What, what, what did you guys do with that?
CANDIDATE
Uh, I mean, it, it certainly was deprioritized with regard to, uh, development, um, also just cause we can make improvements on the web app so much more quickly, um, we developed it, um, with I'm blanking on the moment, but so we are also able to get some of those improvements into the web app without having to do a new app store approval and release, um. But so actually the company was a startup and um they, you know, within 6 months of releasing the mobile app, they actually pivoted to focus more on B2B than B2C. Uh, and so the mobile app became even more not necessary, um, at that point because they were um they were really making products for People who were renting out like full apartment buildings on Airbnb at that point and so they're more focused on the um the sort of owner interface that gave them visibility into management.
INTERVIEWER
OK, that makes sense. Um, I am not going to ask that next question because it doesn't make sense in light of this conversation. Um, OK. So I guess something that you said in that in that last one was it kind of bridges to this question, which is One of the hard parts about being a product person, especially when you're dealing with customers at large on the internet, right, the the high demand, uh, is, is pace, right? You have to make, um, really rapid decisions. And oftentimes without sufficient data as we just talked about. So I, I'd like to, you know, just understand how when you have and you can use an example from, from your background, when you've had clear deadlines that were tight and you had to make a decision and you didn't have enough data. How are you making those decisions? To act. Like walk me through a specific example where you had tight deadlines, you didn't have the data you wanted, how did you make your decision?
CANDIDATE
Um, So, let's see. Uh, you know, when considering, I guess like or making decisions, you know, it's important to consider trade-offs. Um, so if I have to make a decision without enough data, um, You know, I, I'm doing a couple of things, right? Like I'm relying on um My You know, my overall knowledge of like the, the market, the customer, um, Sort of using that as a strong foundation for intuition. Um, and then I'm also looking at, you know, impact to stakeholders, um, both like internal and external, um, you know, how the decision will impact our customers, uh, you know, when it's B2B our, our like counterpart within another organization and also like their role within that organization, um, how will it impact the business side of things, our revenue, uh, are. Um, You know, engagement metrics, our usage metrics, and then like, you know, how it impacts the team stakeholders internally like engineering design, my team, um, you know, the product team, so. There's, uh, I mean, I think there's great value from quantitative data that provides clear direction and knowing. But there is also a huge amount of sort of qualitative data that informs um or can inform decisions, uh. That gives you a Directional understanding of what is the right path to go down without certainty. And I, you know, I, at, at just like you said, right, like as a PM you're often put in that position where you're um expected to make a decision without having enough data and so that is why, you know, as a PM I find myself. closely tied into all of that network of qua qualitative information so that when I do have to make a judgment call, um, I'm able to, to tap into that qualitative information in order to choose, uh, like a direction, right? Um, and then make a decision based on that.
INTERVIEWER
So in the absence of a specific example here, Let's speak more to process. How much consensus are you trying to build with those stakeholders?
CANDIDATE
Um, I mean, The time to build. Like relationships isn't necessarily at the point of decision making, right? So, it's important for me to have a strong relationship with all of my stakeholders. Like full stop all the time, right? And, and like that foundation of trust and reliability is uh is what Like you need so that if you do have to make a decision and there is, you know, fallout, and it can be on sort of any, any one of those given stakeholders depending on what the right decision is, that you have the strength of that like relationship to to fall back on in order to um In order to kind of mitigate the the long term impact of any sort of negative blowback as a part of the decision. Um, but yeah, I mean if you're asking about who I prioritize and, and what that looks like, uh, you know, I prioritize the customer, um, over revenue, over internal stakeholders because I have strong relationships and I know internally I can make the case that we have to do the right thing for the customer because that's in the long term, uh, best interests of the business. I have good relationships with my executive team so that, you know, if we do have to prioritize the customer over like short term impact of revenue, I know that um. We like can walk through that decision together and are typically aligned on, you know, what's doing the doing what's in the best interest of the customer is the right thing to do over the long term for the business, right? Cause that's how our business, that's how I would structure like our business um in order to be successful, so. Sure. Go ahead.
INTERVIEWER
Uh, yeah, you did, you did. I mean, there was an absence of a specific example, but that, that's fine. I'm I'm OK with the framework was good. Um. Right.
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